As the world gathers at COP27 to demand further action on emissions, what role can wind and solar really play in helping us hit global temperature targets? A sceptical Michael Shellenberger, US author and environmental activist, talks to Neil and Jonathan about the renewable “religion”, the need for more nuclear and gas, and how much renewable capacity you can really put on an electricity grid.

Presented by Jonathan Ford and Neil Collins, with Michael Shellenberger.

Produced and edited by Nick Hilton for Podot.

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